I’ve noticed this dynamic of image vs quality a lot in how women’s voices are perceived within the church. I think younger women especially don’t typically do the hard work to find what voices are the most valuable when popular seems more appealing. I think it even effects how the male leaders who are wanting to creatively rethink traditional gender roles (hopefully increasing in number for the next generation of leaders) discern the voices they admire and platform. I do what I can to direct people to female voices that are more like whole foods and less like fast food so to say but I agree the systemic challenges are significant! I’m grateful though that the writers who do good work are still sustained in doing so and hope God continues to being to bear the fruits work in due time!
Thank you, Jen. It was an honor to interview you for the podcast and I can't wait for it to release...your wisdom is way beyond your years and I value each and every word here. It all needs to be said. You bless me!!!!
Not sure if your comment is directed to me, but hi Molly =) I don't know if you're familiar with my work but I often talk about my own complicity in these systems and how difficult it is to extricate myself from them in the current way of things. Do I benefit? Yes. We all benefit in some ways, readers, publishers, writers, and editors. Is there also a cost? Yes, we all feel the cost to varying degrees, readers, publishers, writers, and editors. I don't think it's as easy as saying, "If you criticize it, leave it." Sometimes we *do* need to leave toxic spaces, but others times we can be part of a tide of change. At this juncture, I'm still hopeful for a shift and it's one of the main reasons I'm happy to be publishing with a house headed up by someone who has even gone so far as to publish a book on the dangers of these environments on the Christian's soul. If that option didn't exist for me, I'd be more likely to leave entirely. But it does and that seems like a tide of change worth being a part of for now =)
We have chatted in the past but I don’t have a large platform, my name isn’t in lights and I haven’t and can’t stomach publishing. At least not right now. I’m good to be forgotten. I have appreciated your writing for years.
Sadly for me, I’ve experienced the nauseating underbelly in a way most never will. It’s one thing to see problems and name them in a piece but it’s a whole other thing to lose most of what you love and the future you hoped for and invested in to something publicly revered but evil. Actually, I guess if I’m honest, I’m glad most people aren’t in the shoes I wear that I never asked for or wanted.
I haven’t read your writing in the last while but I’m glad to hear you are at the forefront of naming your own complicity. Because I wonder if honesty is necessary for transformation and healing and I want that for you and the beautiful people in the writing industry.
In my own healing, I say things out loud that I probably should only say in prayer.
Be blessed as you seek His face and do His will. Xx
Jen, as a mother of five young children who often wrestles with how to validate my need to write, I'm grateful for your writing this. I do wish there was more space for it. I struggle to explain it, and even to my incredibly supportive husband, I occasionally try to explain the deep sense of being lost in our church tradition, with limited success. Why did God give me these gifts, and what do I do with them? I am ambitious and driven, but also committed to prioritizing my family. But I do not want to lose the thing that makes me myself in the midst of that. In those rare moments of feeling like I've found a balance, the writing is what makes the day to day drudgery of homeschool, endless diaper changes and sleep deprivation worth it. It makes me feel like a real person with fully formed thoughts. And I think it's important, but it also makes me feel somehow like I'm taking too much. But I want my boys to know that I write for other people to read, that I have a hobby, that sometimes I'm a person who exists as other things than a mother and wife. But it's not that I don't want to be a mother and wife! I love those identities. I just am me, too.
Annelise, I think it's a really important thing to get clear on the goodness of the writing life. Sure, there are dangers of ego, disordered priorities, etc, etc. But even if we never publish, is there good in, as you say, forming our thoughts, committing ourselves to the attention that writing requires, being instructed, bearing witness to our lives (and the God in whom we live and move and have our being)? I think so.
"Here's the thing: especially in evangelical spaces, women often have fewer in-roads to the professional credibility that sells books in the Christian market. They often lack the institutional affiliation that many men enjoy because they lack the academic and pastoral positions of their male counterparts. In many cases, they don’t pursue these positions because they’re either explicitly restricted (because of theological and biblical convictions) or implicitly discouraged (because of their domestic roles and responsibilities)."
This is such a good observation. Women in this space are expected to "build platforms" as a sort of social proof to offset expert credentials, degrees, etc. As an agent, I look for credentials and I look for platforms, yes, but not exclusively. I'm also looking for unique concept and quality writing. Unfortunately, though, there is such limited space in traditional publishing for excellent writers, even with great concepts, if they aren't credentialed or platformed in traditionally acceptable ways---and so many women writing for a Christian audience fall into this space. I know because I pitch these projects to Christian editors every week. Even though my work is with authors who traditionally publish, I would personally love to see more traditionally published authors and readers do more to champion and support and endorse the women writers in their spheres who are choosing non-traditional pathways to publishing.
Morgan, thanks for speaking very frankly on the subject of the "limited space" that can be made for "excellent writers, even with great concepts." I'd be curious to know what "non-traditional pathways to publishing" you're seeing as credible.
It's my opinion that any publishing pathway, including self and hybrid, can be credible if the person (and their writing) is credible. In 2024, traditional publishing doesn't by default mean an author (or their writing) is credible, it just means an author (or their writing) is marketable. We can probably all think of books that would fall into this bucket. Self-publishing and hybrid-publishing CAN BE great alternatives to traditional publishing when done well. Of course, to do these well usually requires some level of privilege and access to resources, but it doesn't require the platform or credentials expected in the traditional route. The barriers to each publishing pathway are different, as are the benefits.
This is helpful, Morgan. Thank you! I like the distinction you're drawing between credible and marketable. There's overlap in many instances, of course. But not always.
I've been thinking about this comment for days -- that Christian publishing has been seduced by the idol of marketability over credibility. The thought that Eugene Peterson or Henri Nouwen would probably be rejected if they were submitting their work fresh today just gob smacks me! Wouldn't it be wonderful if Christian publishing houses could apply the idea of tithe or Sabbath to their choice and every 7th or 10th book was published for its heart, wisdom, beauty, truth -- things that we should be pouring into the world as God's people and as signs of the in-breaking Kingdom of God -- regardless of how "marketable" such a book would be?
This is such a good point: In 2024, traditional publishing doesn't by default mean an author (or their writing) is credible, it just means an author (or their writing) is marketable.
Morgan, you are spot on about the marketable piece. Especially for current Christian authors. As to self-publishing options being an avenue via privilege of some sort, I spent a total of $1,500 for each of my books to be published. And I still had to have connections via my website, email list and at the time social media presence, in order to sell them. However we measure book sales, it's a combination of many things...
I've been eavesdropping on this convo (and the post from the other day). To answer/comment on your question, Jen, I self-published my first two books....I believe that's a credible alternative. Perhaps that's what Morgan meant...
My third book (poetry) was miraculously picked up by a small press in Oregon and has been well-received.
It should be noted that I l e f t social media in April 2023 last year for a number of reasons, mostly because social media presence does not convert to book sales and because of the @$!#!^@#% algorithm. Also, the angst was not serving me well.
I wrote about it when I moved over here to Substack in July last year.
(My two cents. I've been writing a very long time (like since newspapers....) and found online writing/blogging in 2012 after raising kids, going to school and teaching for 20 years. Hi Christie!)
Thanks Jen. Your writing is illuminating and challenging, while maintaining a spirit of graciousness. I too long for the day when we (members of the Body of Christ) can see each first as "made in God's image" and worthy of love and honor because of God's creative will and Christ's completed works on our behalf.
I have been blessed by many women through their writing and teaching.
I am going to make sure I give women the same credibility I give men.
I really appreciate this, Jen. I feel the same lack of institutional support. And hearing you name the rally of not pursuing my gifts and desires for that season of child rearing? It’s exactly true.
Thank you for diving into this, Jen. Something else I’ve noticed is a pressure or temptation (definitely internal, but also external at times), for Christian women to pivot their writing toward themes of marriage and motherhood once/if they enter those seasons. It seems for a variety of reasons, likely connected to complementarianism and conceptions of “biblical womanhood”, that platforms are easier to build via these topics. I know I’ve had to be very intentional to keep writing about theology and culture through lenses other than motherhood. I love being a mom, but I’m not just writing for moms (or even just women)!
Jen, related to this observation by Tabitha, have you noticed any difference for women in the publishing world who are trying to build credibility but have never been married or had children? I have never traditionally published, but I HAVE experienced in the Christian sector and implicit belief that until a woman gets married and has children, she has not actually begun to life or gained any true life experience upon which she can build any substantive credibility. Have you noticed anything like this within the publishing sector specifically when it comes to women attempting to build or demonstrate credibility for their writing?
A friend just recently brought this observation to my attention, and I confess it's one I have failed to identify. I can definitely see that some of the credibility I might have been granted is related to my roles as wife and mother. I want to put this question to Lore Wilbert!
Also, I would love to hear Lore’s thoughts, or anyone else’s for that matter! I do believe this is an issue in the Church, but I’m interested to know if (and how) it has bled into other Christian sectors. I wonder if Kaitlin Beaty might have some thoughts on this too?
Thank you for this Jen. This, with all Lore's post, makes me feel like maybe I can be a writer simply because I do the work. And I don't need an excuse to hone that craft. I find that surprisingly hard to believe though.
Bringing it home, there, with Madeleine! Thank you for this.
I'm a Christian woman who, at twenty, thought she'd someday publish books of narrative non-fiction in the Christian publishing world (right outside her front door in Nashville). At thirty, fresh off the birth of my second child and not writing at all -- save blog posts for my photography clients and captions on IG -- I knew that if I was ever going to write, I had to let go of work that was good but not His great for me (while remaining at home with our growing family). Now, almost forty, I'm as surprised as everyone else in my life to have written one and a half novels (one of those a few times over) with a horizon that includes traditional publishing outside of the "Christian world" (while also unexpectedly homeschooling her three kids!).
"But this reminds us to get clear and firm about our purpose and to heed the call to persevere in doing good because no labor in the Lord is in vain." -- THIS was the word I needed, today.
I appreciate this so much, Jen. You pinpoint several discouraging realities I’ve felt before and after having a book published. It’s high time we (Christian writers, publishers, & readers) reckon with the beauty pageantry coded within platform building. Also, I’d be curious to hear the perspective of a male writer who lacks the institutional benefits of academia or a pastoral role. He might not feel pressure to look a certain way, but perhaps to be funny or athletic or have some other shtick.
Another great post! Thank you! Two things really stood out for me. 1 - That there are choices and conditions and 2 - the regret that no one acknowledged your God-given gifts.
While we have lived very different lives, I can tell you that our paths to our calling are very similar. A few years ago when I was beyond frustrated that despite the thousands I put into marketing, book sales were dismal, I was reminded about conditions getting in the way. That helped alleviate some of the blame I was casting upon myself.
I was also steered into a life that wasn't what I felt my calling was about and was 50 when I took the steps to fulfill it. It's a tough go because you are correct - the world wants short, dopamine-driven digital content and we are offering something much more than that.
However, I believe that God doesn't make mistakes and that He wouldn't call to us if He didn't have a plan. I have to remind myself every day to trust His guidance and have faith in His plan.
I’ll be thinking about this article for a long time. As someone who is stages behind you, in a season of writing and teaching with young children but feeling the “unnecessary” self-doubt, I so appreciate you putting this into words. Thank you!
This is everything I hoped it would be. Thank you for saying it all.
Thanks for nudging me to consider a long form post! I probably wouldn't have written this otherwise.
I’ve noticed this dynamic of image vs quality a lot in how women’s voices are perceived within the church. I think younger women especially don’t typically do the hard work to find what voices are the most valuable when popular seems more appealing. I think it even effects how the male leaders who are wanting to creatively rethink traditional gender roles (hopefully increasing in number for the next generation of leaders) discern the voices they admire and platform. I do what I can to direct people to female voices that are more like whole foods and less like fast food so to say but I agree the systemic challenges are significant! I’m grateful though that the writers who do good work are still sustained in doing so and hope God continues to being to bear the fruits work in due time!
Yes, in good time! Thanks for the influence you’re having in your own circles!
Thank you, Jen. It was an honor to interview you for the podcast and I can't wait for it to release...your wisdom is way beyond your years and I value each and every word here. It all needs to be said. You bless me!!!!
We even touched on this subject then, didn't we? I am so glad we had the chance to meet and talk. Thank you, Janell!
Are we complicit when we benefit from the very thing we criticize?
I would say, yes.
Not sure if your comment is directed to me, but hi Molly =) I don't know if you're familiar with my work but I often talk about my own complicity in these systems and how difficult it is to extricate myself from them in the current way of things. Do I benefit? Yes. We all benefit in some ways, readers, publishers, writers, and editors. Is there also a cost? Yes, we all feel the cost to varying degrees, readers, publishers, writers, and editors. I don't think it's as easy as saying, "If you criticize it, leave it." Sometimes we *do* need to leave toxic spaces, but others times we can be part of a tide of change. At this juncture, I'm still hopeful for a shift and it's one of the main reasons I'm happy to be publishing with a house headed up by someone who has even gone so far as to publish a book on the dangers of these environments on the Christian's soul. If that option didn't exist for me, I'd be more likely to leave entirely. But it does and that seems like a tide of change worth being a part of for now =)
Hi Lore 🤍
We have chatted in the past but I don’t have a large platform, my name isn’t in lights and I haven’t and can’t stomach publishing. At least not right now. I’m good to be forgotten. I have appreciated your writing for years.
Sadly for me, I’ve experienced the nauseating underbelly in a way most never will. It’s one thing to see problems and name them in a piece but it’s a whole other thing to lose most of what you love and the future you hoped for and invested in to something publicly revered but evil. Actually, I guess if I’m honest, I’m glad most people aren’t in the shoes I wear that I never asked for or wanted.
I haven’t read your writing in the last while but I’m glad to hear you are at the forefront of naming your own complicity. Because I wonder if honesty is necessary for transformation and healing and I want that for you and the beautiful people in the writing industry.
In my own healing, I say things out loud that I probably should only say in prayer.
Be blessed as you seek His face and do His will. Xx
Jen, as a mother of five young children who often wrestles with how to validate my need to write, I'm grateful for your writing this. I do wish there was more space for it. I struggle to explain it, and even to my incredibly supportive husband, I occasionally try to explain the deep sense of being lost in our church tradition, with limited success. Why did God give me these gifts, and what do I do with them? I am ambitious and driven, but also committed to prioritizing my family. But I do not want to lose the thing that makes me myself in the midst of that. In those rare moments of feeling like I've found a balance, the writing is what makes the day to day drudgery of homeschool, endless diaper changes and sleep deprivation worth it. It makes me feel like a real person with fully formed thoughts. And I think it's important, but it also makes me feel somehow like I'm taking too much. But I want my boys to know that I write for other people to read, that I have a hobby, that sometimes I'm a person who exists as other things than a mother and wife. But it's not that I don't want to be a mother and wife! I love those identities. I just am me, too.
Annelise, I think it's a really important thing to get clear on the goodness of the writing life. Sure, there are dangers of ego, disordered priorities, etc, etc. But even if we never publish, is there good in, as you say, forming our thoughts, committing ourselves to the attention that writing requires, being instructed, bearing witness to our lives (and the God in whom we live and move and have our being)? I think so.
You aren't alone Annelise <3
"Here's the thing: especially in evangelical spaces, women often have fewer in-roads to the professional credibility that sells books in the Christian market. They often lack the institutional affiliation that many men enjoy because they lack the academic and pastoral positions of their male counterparts. In many cases, they don’t pursue these positions because they’re either explicitly restricted (because of theological and biblical convictions) or implicitly discouraged (because of their domestic roles and responsibilities)."
This is such a good observation. Women in this space are expected to "build platforms" as a sort of social proof to offset expert credentials, degrees, etc. As an agent, I look for credentials and I look for platforms, yes, but not exclusively. I'm also looking for unique concept and quality writing. Unfortunately, though, there is such limited space in traditional publishing for excellent writers, even with great concepts, if they aren't credentialed or platformed in traditionally acceptable ways---and so many women writing for a Christian audience fall into this space. I know because I pitch these projects to Christian editors every week. Even though my work is with authors who traditionally publish, I would personally love to see more traditionally published authors and readers do more to champion and support and endorse the women writers in their spheres who are choosing non-traditional pathways to publishing.
Morgan, thanks for speaking very frankly on the subject of the "limited space" that can be made for "excellent writers, even with great concepts." I'd be curious to know what "non-traditional pathways to publishing" you're seeing as credible.
It's my opinion that any publishing pathway, including self and hybrid, can be credible if the person (and their writing) is credible. In 2024, traditional publishing doesn't by default mean an author (or their writing) is credible, it just means an author (or their writing) is marketable. We can probably all think of books that would fall into this bucket. Self-publishing and hybrid-publishing CAN BE great alternatives to traditional publishing when done well. Of course, to do these well usually requires some level of privilege and access to resources, but it doesn't require the platform or credentials expected in the traditional route. The barriers to each publishing pathway are different, as are the benefits.
This is helpful, Morgan. Thank you! I like the distinction you're drawing between credible and marketable. There's overlap in many instances, of course. But not always.
I've been thinking about this comment for days -- that Christian publishing has been seduced by the idol of marketability over credibility. The thought that Eugene Peterson or Henri Nouwen would probably be rejected if they were submitting their work fresh today just gob smacks me! Wouldn't it be wonderful if Christian publishing houses could apply the idea of tithe or Sabbath to their choice and every 7th or 10th book was published for its heart, wisdom, beauty, truth -- things that we should be pouring into the world as God's people and as signs of the in-breaking Kingdom of God -- regardless of how "marketable" such a book would be?
This is such a good point: In 2024, traditional publishing doesn't by default mean an author (or their writing) is credible, it just means an author (or their writing) is marketable.
Morgan, you are spot on about the marketable piece. Especially for current Christian authors. As to self-publishing options being an avenue via privilege of some sort, I spent a total of $1,500 for each of my books to be published. And I still had to have connections via my website, email list and at the time social media presence, in order to sell them. However we measure book sales, it's a combination of many things...
I've been eavesdropping on this convo (and the post from the other day). To answer/comment on your question, Jen, I self-published my first two books....I believe that's a credible alternative. Perhaps that's what Morgan meant...
My third book (poetry) was miraculously picked up by a small press in Oregon and has been well-received.
It should be noted that I l e f t social media in April 2023 last year for a number of reasons, mostly because social media presence does not convert to book sales and because of the @$!#!^@#% algorithm. Also, the angst was not serving me well.
I wrote about it when I moved over here to Substack in July last year.
(My two cents. I've been writing a very long time (like since newspapers....) and found online writing/blogging in 2012 after raising kids, going to school and teaching for 20 years. Hi Christie!)
Jody, thanks for sketching some of your story! I agree that self-publishing is a good option! I often tell people that when they ask me these days.
Jen, thank you. I could highlight, underline and star every sentence.
Thanks for reading, Sara, and for chiming in!
Thanks Jen. Your writing is illuminating and challenging, while maintaining a spirit of graciousness. I too long for the day when we (members of the Body of Christ) can see each first as "made in God's image" and worthy of love and honor because of God's creative will and Christ's completed works on our behalf.
I have been blessed by many women through their writing and teaching.
I am going to make sure I give women the same credibility I give men.
Peace of Christ,
David
Thank you, David, for the support you lend women writers! It means a lot!
I really appreciate this, Jen. I feel the same lack of institutional support. And hearing you name the rally of not pursuing my gifts and desires for that season of child rearing? It’s exactly true.
I am so happy you've got another book coming out, Micha. Your book, Found, was hugely important to me in the younger years!
Thank you for diving into this, Jen. Something else I’ve noticed is a pressure or temptation (definitely internal, but also external at times), for Christian women to pivot their writing toward themes of marriage and motherhood once/if they enter those seasons. It seems for a variety of reasons, likely connected to complementarianism and conceptions of “biblical womanhood”, that platforms are easier to build via these topics. I know I’ve had to be very intentional to keep writing about theology and culture through lenses other than motherhood. I love being a mom, but I’m not just writing for moms (or even just women)!
Yes! Amen to all of this.
Jen, related to this observation by Tabitha, have you noticed any difference for women in the publishing world who are trying to build credibility but have never been married or had children? I have never traditionally published, but I HAVE experienced in the Christian sector and implicit belief that until a woman gets married and has children, she has not actually begun to life or gained any true life experience upon which she can build any substantive credibility. Have you noticed anything like this within the publishing sector specifically when it comes to women attempting to build or demonstrate credibility for their writing?
A friend just recently brought this observation to my attention, and I confess it's one I have failed to identify. I can definitely see that some of the credibility I might have been granted is related to my roles as wife and mother. I want to put this question to Lore Wilbert!
Also, I would love to hear Lore’s thoughts, or anyone else’s for that matter! I do believe this is an issue in the Church, but I’m interested to know if (and how) it has bled into other Christian sectors. I wonder if Kaitlin Beaty might have some thoughts on this too?
Well, I’m a little comforted by your friend’s observation. At least I’m not COMPLETELY crazy 😅
Thank you for this Jen. This, with all Lore's post, makes me feel like maybe I can be a writer simply because I do the work. And I don't need an excuse to hone that craft. I find that surprisingly hard to believe though.
Yes, do the work! This is no small task, and it has its own fruitful rewards! I very much want to encourage writers along this line.
Bringing it home, there, with Madeleine! Thank you for this.
I'm a Christian woman who, at twenty, thought she'd someday publish books of narrative non-fiction in the Christian publishing world (right outside her front door in Nashville). At thirty, fresh off the birth of my second child and not writing at all -- save blog posts for my photography clients and captions on IG -- I knew that if I was ever going to write, I had to let go of work that was good but not His great for me (while remaining at home with our growing family). Now, almost forty, I'm as surprised as everyone else in my life to have written one and a half novels (one of those a few times over) with a horizon that includes traditional publishing outside of the "Christian world" (while also unexpectedly homeschooling her three kids!).
"But this reminds us to get clear and firm about our purpose and to heed the call to persevere in doing good because no labor in the Lord is in vain." -- THIS was the word I needed, today.
I am encouraged to hear your story!
I remember you as a very careful and intentional person (and writer). I like that you ditched careful in this piece.
Well, hopefully I was careful. But maybe I was more direct. I have a feeling you’ll be seeing more of this from me, ha!
I appreciate this so much, Jen. You pinpoint several discouraging realities I’ve felt before and after having a book published. It’s high time we (Christian writers, publishers, & readers) reckon with the beauty pageantry coded within platform building. Also, I’d be curious to hear the perspective of a male writer who lacks the institutional benefits of academia or a pastoral role. He might not feel pressure to look a certain way, but perhaps to be funny or athletic or have some other shtick.
I think that’s a great question for a male writer, and I hope someone will take it up!
The issue I worry about more is "the women's market".
Oooooo. This, too.
Do say more!
Ugh. I have my own associations w this. 🥶
Another great post! Thank you! Two things really stood out for me. 1 - That there are choices and conditions and 2 - the regret that no one acknowledged your God-given gifts.
While we have lived very different lives, I can tell you that our paths to our calling are very similar. A few years ago when I was beyond frustrated that despite the thousands I put into marketing, book sales were dismal, I was reminded about conditions getting in the way. That helped alleviate some of the blame I was casting upon myself.
I was also steered into a life that wasn't what I felt my calling was about and was 50 when I took the steps to fulfill it. It's a tough go because you are correct - the world wants short, dopamine-driven digital content and we are offering something much more than that.
However, I believe that God doesn't make mistakes and that He wouldn't call to us if He didn't have a plan. I have to remind myself every day to trust His guidance and have faith in His plan.
Sounds like God has shepherded you along the winding journey of calling, Penny, and I fully trust his work in my life in that regard!
Thank you for this. All of it.
You're welcome!
You have painted a very accurate picture of the realities we face. Thank you for this.
You're welcome!
I’ll be thinking about this article for a long time. As someone who is stages behind you, in a season of writing and teaching with young children but feeling the “unnecessary” self-doubt, I so appreciate you putting this into words. Thank you!
God bless and establish the many varied works of your hands, Angela!